Ken: Tom Marchwinski's insights are very good. I agree with you, Ken, related to LRT
not being the same as streetcar. But I strongly believe that LRT should be in its own
category and not lumped in with street car nor with the urban rail descriptors, whcih.
Since the questionnaire will be the same throughout the country, it will need to provide
good data in various situations such as New Jersey and San Francisco where all steel-wheel
modes exist, systems that are 100% dedicated guideway (urban rail-like), systems that are
a 100% mixed traffic or circulator (streetcar-like), and those that are a mix of the two.
In this way, the various areas can sort out the data (hopefully) the way they need to.
If "metro" should be included in the subway/elevated category, I recommend using
"metrorail" instead for the reasons expressed in other emails. This might lead
to some confusion in places such as Dallas where responders might answer either metrorail
or light rail, but this could be sorted out. San Francisco might have a harder time
figuring it out between BART and Muni Metro. And just to add more ambiguity to this, the
terminology will work only until a rubber-tired "metro" is installed somewhere
in the States. I could support Tom M's recommendation to use
"elevated/subway" only although I think the LRT ambiguity would come into the
questionnaire again.
I suggest that "railroad" might be confusing. Not sure how the evaluations of
the ACS has viewed the responses to this and if this simple one word descriptor has been
sufficient. Eliminate this entirely and use the "RAIL - Commuter, Amtrak (or long
distance)" instead.
Best Regards,
Scott P. Seeburger
Planning and Environmental Management
Florida Department of Transportation--District 4
954-777-4632 (O)
***************
-----Original Message-----
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces@chrispy.net] On Behalf Of
Ken.Cervenka(a)dot.gov
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:24 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] American Commuter Survey (ACS): The Means of Transportation Question
Hello,
As you may know, the Census Bureau's "means of transportation" question on
the current American Community Survey questionnaire (as well as the previous Census 2000
"long form") is as follows:
How did this person usually get to work LAST WEEK? If this person usually used more than
one method of transportation during the trip, mark (X) the box of the one used for most of
the distance.
__ Car, truck, or van
__ Bus or trolley bus
__ Streetcar or trolley car
__ Subway or elevated
__ Railroad
__ Ferryboat
__ Taxicab
__ Motorcycle
__ Bicycle
__ Walked
__ Worked at home
__ Other method
Here at U.S. DOT, we (meaning FTA, FHWA, and BTS) are discussing whether updated
descriptions might make more sense for the three public transportation categories
associated with use of rail:
__ Streetcar or trolley car
__ Subway or elevated
__ Railroad
However, any changes to these three categories (or even collapsing these to a single
"rail transit" category) will, if ultimately approved for testing, require a
formal and carefully-controlled "ACS content change" test to be conducted by the
Census Bureau in 2013 and 2014. So this is a very big deal. If three rail-related
categories are maintained, here is one approach under consideration for future testing:
__ Streetcar or trolley rail
__ Subway, metro, or light rail
__ Commuter railroad or Amtrak
Or maybe a variation that makes it clear(er) each of these choices refer to a rail transit
mode:
__ Rail - streetcar or trolley
__ Rail - subway, metro, or light rail
__ Rail - commuter railroad or Amtrak
If you have any comments about what seems to make the most sense from the viewpoint of a
future ACS respondent and/or transportation data analyst, please send me an email and I
will summarize all comments received in a future email to this listserv (along with your
name as the author, unless you wish to be anonymous). But feel free to reply directly to
this listserv with your observations!
Ken Cervenka
FTA Office of Planning and Environment
202/493-0512
***************
-----Original Message-----
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces@chrispy.net] On Behalf Of
Ken.Cervenka(a)dot.gov
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:55 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] American Commuter Survey (ACS): The Means of Transportation Question
(follow-up summary #1)
Hello,
Shown below my December 11 email to the CTPP listserv are all responses I have received so
far (either emails directly to me, or emails that were sent to the listserv). If I left
anyone out, or made any mistake in copying your original response, I assure you that was
not intentional.
Here at FTA we thought most analysts these days (as well as transit riders) would prefer
to think of modern light rail systems as providing a level of service in terms of speed to
riders that is much closer to that of traditional "subway systems," and
therefore clearly distinguishable from either "streetcars" or "modern
streetcars." But several commenters are specifically noting "light rail"
fits better with the streetcar category, so this deserves some careful consideration of
the pros and cons.
Thanks to EVERYONE who has responded, and by all means I encourage you to provide
additional comments, either about the location for "light rail" or anything else
about the "means of transportation" question that inspires you to write. If
more comments are received, I plan to send out another summary of all responses next week
to the CTPP listserv. I also plan to send the next summary to the TMIP listserv, for even
further deliberations from the Census user community prior to U.S. DOT's preparation
in early 2013 of a formal proposal for an "ACS Content Change" test.
Sincerely,
Ken Cervenka
FTA Office of Planning and Environment
*****************
From: Krishnan Viswanathan
I personally like the second classification:
__ Rail - streetcar or trolley
__ Rail - subway, metro, or light rail
__ Rail - commuter railroad or Amtrak
My reasons are the following:
1) As a survey respondent it removes the confusion regd. what to answer faced with this
question. A regular respondent will say that they take the train, they do not distinguish
between subway/light rail vs commuter rail and calling it out in this manner - where we we
have rail broken into subcategories will help the respondent choose the right type of
rail.
2) As an analyst, having this classification makes it easier to compare across and within
modes and geographies. What i mean is this - lets say we did not distinguish that these
are 3 rail modes which are classified further as streetcar/light/commuter and geog A has
all 3 rail modes available, geog B has only 2 rail modes, and geog C has only one rail
mode available. Doing this classification allows the analyst to determine that in all 3
geographies, when a respondent choice is one common mode, it means the same thing and not
different things to different respondents in different geographies. It will also allow for
better mode choice estimation if the nest definitions are directly from the survey data
and not solely reliant on analyst judgement. Further, when looking at results/doing
studies later on it might be easier to consider what the aggregate rail mode comprises of
when compared to auto and bus.
*****************
From: Wendell Cox
Light rail does not belong with subway and metro. It belongs with trolley or street car.
Other than that either of the two alternatives would be fine. But if light rail is to be
twinned with metro, better to stay with what we have.
*****************
From: Patricia Becker
This is going to be very difficult to test because so few ACS respondents have access to
any of these. Does the word "metro" mean the same thing in all metro areas, or
are there some where it refers to bus transportation? I'm not sure the term
"rail" resonates well everywhere, either. I would suggest that FDOT gather
information from the states and metros where rail commuting is a feasible option and find
out what people call it, or how it's referred to, such as "metro" in the
Washington DC areas.
*****************
From: Barb Mee
I am not responding as a professional because I am neither a data nor a transit pro. I do
answer census questions when asked though, and really like the rail - ... approach. I
wonder if elevated ought to stay in the description, though. While I think the only
remaining el is in Chicago, I imagine lots and lots of folks use it, and it seems like
it's worth it to get the right answer.
*****************
From: Wendell Cox
[In response to Patricia Becker's comment]
metro (didnt capitalize, because it refers in this context to a type of rail system, not a
name of a rail system) is the international term but not used extensively in this country.
Probably the best term is subway/elevated. The point is that metros/subways and elevates
are fully grade separated, and faster... as opposed to light rail, which is rarely, if
ever, fully grade separated and thus is generally slower and has much lower capacities.
*****************
From: Steve Polzin
Glad you are looking at this. I like the idea of adding light rail. In the new start
locations this is commonly known by the public as light rail. I do think it fits better
with streetcar and trolley. Since the question refers to last week it is almost certainly
travel in their home town (unless they were out of town for the majority of the week) so
one could set up logic checks to test the reasonableness of the responses.
I wish they would also shift to asking about the mode on the most recent day they commuted
to work. Transit is more commonly an occasional mode (compared to auto) and hence it is
not uncommon for folks to use it a few time per week but not the majority and very common
for folks to have it as a normal mode but not exclusive mode leading to some overstating
of transit commuting use. NHTS confirms a significant difference between actual and usual
mode for transit. Would be nice to shift to actual travel day mode.
*****************
From: Andrew Rohne
I like the second classification, but I want "metro" (whether capitalized or
not) stricken from it. Our bus system has "Go*Metro" all over the sides of
their busses, and a fairly decent proportion of their riders may not understand that metro
= subway on the form, I wouldn't want them confused.
*****************
From: Tom Worker-Braddock
[In response to Andrew Rohne's comment]
Agreed on removing the word "metro". A wide variety of non-rail transit systems
incorporate the word "metro" or "Metro" into their branding or service
schemes. The Kansas City transportation authority extensively brands itself as "The
Metro", but doesn't have a single rail component in the system (although some are
being planned).
*****************
From: Rob Case
I think it best to clarify what exists today, as opposed to creating "new"
categories, in order that comparisons may be made (albeit with caveats) to the past.
Therefore, I think that light rail is often a "street" mode and most users would
have been answering "Streetcar or trolley rail" because they all ride in the
street. And, like Krishnan, for clarity, I like the use of "Rail - " as a
prefix. So, placing the most frequent answers first in the list within each response,
I'm in favor of:
__ Rail - light rail, streetcar, or trolley __ Rail - subway, metro, or elevated __ Rail -
commuter rail or Amtrak
PS It's sort of picky, but I think "commuter rail" is more common and more
accurate than "commuter railroad" (the actual "railroad" can be owned
by one company and used by it for freight, by Amtrak, and by a commuter rail outfit).
*****************
From: Arash Mirzaei
It does not seem too difficult to collect all the names used for all transit modes in the
country before any suggestion is extended to ACS office. After all, these transit modes
are provided by transit agencies and they know, as providers, what their modes are. The
result would be a list of transit service names and the modes. This product provides an
objective source of data for making a recommendation.
If printing costs are not prohibitive, a more advanced way of using the above list would
be in the contextual design of the ACS form. More meaningful terms can be used for each
region in which the ACS is being conducted. So, the form offers most possible modes with
locally familiar names based on the location of the respondent.
*****************
From: Mike Harmon
I think the use of vans (Vanpools) needs to be separated from the other options since
their use is increasing so much.
*****************
From: Alan Pisarski
[In response to Mike Harmon's comment about vans (Vanpools)]
A really intriguing idea. a little complicated but still worth considering.
*****************
Ken- This is Tom Marchwinski of New Jersey Transit. As one of the few areas in the
country that actually has significant amounts of people using all of the rail modes under
discussion, and as one who makes use of the data from this question not just for modeling
but also to look at mode shares, and understand transit travel patterns and demographics,
I would like to weigh in on this. You should know that I approached FWHA about 8 years
ago on this very issue, and proposed that with all of the new Light Rail systems in the
US, including two new systems here in New Jersey (as well as having an older, pre-1945
trolley line, the Newark Subway now called Newark Light Rail)that it was time to have a
separate Light Rail mode question. However, as you indicate, it takes two years of
testing to get a question change, and nothing was advanced. So I am glad to see this
proposal finally come about. Here is some real world experience both with full census and
ACS in an area th!
at has all of these modes.
1. I believe Light Rail, streetcar and Trolley should be a separate mode. If you want to
say "Rail- Light Rail, Streetcar and Trolley", that would be OK. Light rail is
running in so many regions now, and it really is a separate mode from the other two rail
types, both in terms of vehicle type, use in both mixed street and grade separation, and
also visibility, as well as type of seating in most cases.
2. Keep Subway/Elevated as a separate mode. "Rail- Subway/Elevated"
IF you want to add Metro, you could, but I would be very cautious about this. You should
survey how many agencies, including Bus Only systems call themselves Metro. I am
concerned that many survey respondents who take a system with the word "Metro"
in the title will see this response and assume it applies, when it may mean the name of
the system. As Wendell Cox indicated, Metro is not in common use in the US, and maybe this
could be tested as an addition by the Census . There could be a component of US born vs.
non-US born on this issue, so I think it can be tested, but I am wary of confusion with
system names that include Metro. Even in the DC area, "Metro" usually refers to
the subway system, but there is also MetroBus, and some people may get confused.
3. My Third Choice would be "Rail- Commuter or Long-Distance Railroad". I use
the word long distance rather than AMTRAK, since AMTRAK is technically a company name, and
who knows if it will be named that for 20 years, or even in operation. Using the word
"commuter" also is better because most new systems of this type are called
commuter railroad. Also, in an old system like we have in New Jersey , with over 250
commuter rail stations, census data still shows some confusion between
"Railroad" and "Subway/Elevated". In areas with no Subway in
proximity to the commuter rail stations, a significant number of people will check
Subway/elevated as a mode, so we have to add them together to get a commuter rail total.
By putting or at least testing the word commuter with railroad, it makes it clearer that
it is separate from Subway. I think this would help. Long Distance Railroad I think
also covers AMTRAK but makes it more generic, and does not tie answers to AMTRAK
specifically.
I believe Light Rail should be separate because it really is different than either
commuter rail or subway. In Northern New Jersey , we have competition between subway
(PATH system) vs. commuter rail, and in limited circumstances Light Rail. Because we
have a historic trolley now light rail service in Newark, most people checked
"Railroad" or Subway /Elevated. Without the word light rail, very few people
check "trolley" for any of our three LRT Systems, which in addition to Newark
are Hudson Bergen Light Rail, and the River Line LRT in Southern NJ.
From what I have seen in ACS data, right now the ACS
understates transit ridership because many people do not know what to check. I have
tracked ACS data in areas where we opened new LRT service, and I have seen big jumps in
the "Other " category of mode data. This was most pronounced in Burlington
County along the River Line, and to some extent along the HBLR in Hudson County. So many
people today are checking "Other" since there is no LRT choice. The other item
people check is mostly Railroad along the Light Rail lines. This seems to be a default,
since Both River Line and HBLR have subway/elevated systems that people are familiar
with nearby , (PATH in North Jersey and PATCO In south Jersey). In any case, I would bet
if you look at where you have put in new LRT systems, that the percentage of
"Other" mode has increased by people putting in Light rail or checking other
because there is no choice listed today.
I would also strongly object to lumping all rail in one category. In areas like NJ, NY,
Philadelphia, Boston, etc, where there are multiple rail modes, we do use the differences
to estimate rail vs. LRT or rail vs. Subway/elevated submodal spilts. Granted it is more
difficult because of lower sampling, but our own survey data does show (and if you are
interested we can provide some of the details) that there are significant demographic,
choice, and submodal split differences that are important to maintain and understand. WE
need the current split of three rail modes to continue. As I indicated, having one for
LRT/Trolley, one for Subway/Elevated, and one for commuter rail etc. is the best way to
maintain both long term historic trend data and also detailed submodal data both for model
validation, demographics of riders, and understanding the types of issues we deal with on
a regular basis, as well as planning by some of the larger transit agencies such as NJ
TRANSIT. !
My last comment is on the issue the we probably cannot change, which is the Census
insistence on using the "longest distance" mode as to which mode to pick. This
I believe is confusing, and we know it overstates auto usage in some areas, as we have
considerable long drive to transit trips. IF there was any way to test changing this to
ask if a person checked auto was transit used on any part of this trip, or to change to
restriction in some way I think that would help as well.
Finally, I do believe as one comment I saw said, that vanpool should be a separate mode.
I would ask it under auto where I believe the question is 7 or more persons in the auto,
to give two choices, one would be "Car or Truck, 7 or more persons, and then
Vanpool, 7 or more persons. NJT does subsidize vanpools, and getting a handle on this
would be useful.
IF needed, I can send a formal email to you with these comments, and also can offer some
other suggestions about where it would make sense to test these potential new wordings.
As I have indicated, we do have almost the full range of modes within our service area,
including ferry. In fact we have one of the few locations with commuter rail, Subway,
Light Rail, and Ferry at the same location (Hoboken Terminal). Tom Marchwinski, Sr.
Director Forecasting and Research , NJ TRANSIT
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