MY GREAT CONCERN IS THAT WE WILL HAVE FOUR DATA SETS BY NEXT YEAR - THE C2SS
FOR 2000, THE CENSUS JTW FOR 2000, THE NEW ACS-SS01 SURVEY AND THE
NPTS -everyone will be able to pick their favorite and spin forever as Ed
says. We must understand the linkages and differences or we will expire.
AEP
----- Original Message -----
From: ed christopher <edc(a)berwyned.com>
Cc: <ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CTPP] Reconciling Census Transit Commuters with Ridership
Statistics
Chris I thought your comment about the census data
being flawed was a bit
strong and way off the point of what Chuck was raising
here. You and Ken may have your beef with arguing for
specific projects
but I believe what Chuck was doing was trying to get folks to
begin thinking how we can reconcile the differences
between the various
data sets. I don't think that arguing about the integrity
of
the data--one versus the other is really the way to
go. I am sure that
most transit ridership count programs have their own warts.
This is why planners need to understand what is behind
the numbers they
use and stay away from working the "spin" game. To
complicate
this even more, toss in a household travel survey and
several transit on
board surveys and the mix becomes all that more interesting.
Wouldn't it serve the planning community better to fully understand and
quantify the differences between the data sets? We know there
is variability in peoples travel.
Now here is a wild thought (although I say it tongue-in-check). Maybe the
people
who take transit one or two days a week or for part
of their trip are doing it for altruistic reasons.
Since they know
transit may get short shifted they overlook their auto travel and
say they used transit most of the time on their census
form. Its just a
thought.
As for Chucks comments I believe that he was actually searching to gain a
better
understanding into the trip purpose side of mode
split issue. Is the the work trip declining in its
mode share? The
answer of course in not in any census data.
Forinash.Christopher(a)epamail.epa.gov wrote:
> Isn't another piece of the explanation that the Census doesn't actually
> measure trip-making as we typically define it? The Census mode-to-work
> question is an odd thing -- see
>
http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d02p.pdf questions 23a&b. The Census
> day was 4/1/2000, and it asks "how did this person usually get to work
> LAST WEEK?", and requires a one-mode answer (with "most distance"
the
> criteria for choosing main mode). So for a number of individuals and
> families with whome I am anecdotally familiar, you don't count transit
> even if you use it quite a bit. If you walk to transit to and from work
> 2 days a week and drive the others, you don't report transit. If you
> carpool to a parking location and then take transit to your office every
> day, you don't report transit. If you drive from Loudoun County VA to
> the Vienna METRO to downtown Washington DC every day, you don't report
> transit. So aren't the Census numbers ALWAYS going to be biased toward
> the "dominant" mode (unless everyone does the same thing every single
> day)? As others have posted, there are other reasons for disagreement
> between Census travel trends and all other sources, but this is clearly
> one.
>
> Lots of people seek smart growth locations for home and work
> specifically to have access to transportation choices. That doesn't
> mean that every day, or even the majority of days, they won't drive. I
> ranted a bit about this a couple weeks ago in response to Ken Orski's
> flippant post to a thread started by Chuck Purvis. Using these flawed
> Census numbers to argue for further depriving people of transportation
> choices is completely outdated thinking.
>
> Chris.
> ------------------------------------
> Christopher V. Forinash
> U.S. EPA: Office of Policy, Economics and Innovation
> 1200 Pennsylvania Ave NW (MC 1808), Washington DC 20460
> (Delivery: 401 M St. SW, #WT-1013D)
> 202-260-5044 vox 0174 fax; forinash.christopher(a)epa.gov
> ------------------------------------
> Development, Community & Environment Division:
>
http://www.epa.gov/smartgrowth
> A partner in the Smart Growth Network:
http://www.smartgrowth.org
>
>
> "Gardner, John
> F" To: 'Chuck Purvis'
<CPurvis(a)mtc.ca.gov>ov>, ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
> <GardnerJF(a)dot.s
cc:
> tate.sc.us> Subject: RE: [CTPP]
Reconciling Census Transit Commuters with Ridership St atistics
Sent by:
owner-ctpp-news@
chrispy.net
07/08/2002 08:14
AM
Another explanation for the growth in total unlinked passenger trips,
while
total transit commuters remained stable, is the shift toward rail
transit by
many of the growing transit systems. In many cases, light rail replaced
express bus service. The express bus collected people in their
neighborhoods or at a park and ride lot and was a "one-seat" trip. Rail
often involves a transfer from a feeder bus to the train, so a trip that
formerly counted as one unlinked passenger trip now counts as two. A
better
measure would be "linked trips" (excludes transfers) when making this
comparison, but I don't believe they are reported.
John Gardner, AICP
SCDOT Office of Planning
PO Box 191
Columbia, SC 29202-0191
(803) 737 - 1444
gardnerjf(a)dot.state.sc.us
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Purvis [mailto:CPurvis@mtc.ca.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:36 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] Reconciling Census Transit Commuters with Ridership
Statistics
To: CTPP-News
One of the interesting journey-to-work results is the lack of change, at
the
NATIONAL level, in the total number of transit commuters. The US had
6,069,589 transit commuters according to the 1990 Census, and 6,067,703
transit commuters according to the 2000 Census, a 0.03 percent decrease.
(On
the other hand, the US transit commute SHARE declined from 5.3 percent
in
1990 to 4.7 percent in 2000.)
This compares to national transit ridership statistics which show a 6.4
percent increase in annual unlinked passenger trips comparing 1990 to
2000.
(Source is APTA's 2002 Public Transportation Fact Book, Table 26.) The
APTA
book (I would assume based on FTA-collected ridership statistics) shows
annual unlinked public transit trips increasing from 8,799 million trips
in
1990 to 9,363 million trips in 2000 (the 2000 numbers are preliminary,
according to the 2002 APTA Fact Book).
So, an issue is how to reconcile a 0.0 percent change in national
transit
commuters with a 6.4 percent increase in national transit ridership.
A plausible explanation is that the work trip share of public
transportation
trips has declined since 1990. According to the 1990 NPTS, 42.6 percent
of
public transportation person trips are for the purpose of "earning a
living"
(NPTS Databook, Vol. 1, Table 4.40).
So, I can calculate that about 3,748 million unlinked transit boardings
(in
1990) are "work trips" and that this might decline to about 3,747
million
unlinked transit boarding "work trips", in 2000. This means that perhaps
40
percent of year 2000 transit boardings are work trips (3,747 / 9,363),
which
is quite plausible at the national level.
The story might be that the national number of transit work trips, 1990
to
2000, has remained fairly stable, and that, at least at the national
level,
the growth in transit is attributable to non-work travel.
The data question is: is information available from either the 1995 NPTS
or
the 2001 NHTS that can corroborate this possible trend - - a decline in
the
work purpose share for public transportation trips?
Also, who has attempted to reconcile their change in regional transit
commuters with their own transit ridership statistics? What would be
most
helpful is any comparisons of on-board surveys or household travel
surveys
that show any changes in the trip purpose mix for transit trips.
(Other larger issues still loom in terms of the plausibility/fixability
of
the Census data. We are very concerned about the overall LOW numbers of
TOTAL commuters and employed residents we're seeing in the 2000 Census
in
our region....)
Wishing a Safe & Sane Happy Fourth of July to All!
Chuck Purvis
***********************************************
Charles L. Purvis, AICP
Senior Transportation Planner/Analyst
Metropolitan Transportation Commission
101 Eighth Street
Oakland, CA 94607-4700
(510) 464-7731 (office)
(510) 464-7848 (fax)
www:
http://www.mtc.ca.gov/
Census WWW:
http://census.mtc.ca.gov/
***********************************************
--
Ed Christopher
Metropolitan Activities
Midwest Resource Center
Federal Highway Administration
19900 Governors Drive
Olympia Fields, Illinois 60461
708-283-3534 (V)
708-283-3501 (F)