It is also possible that large people (tall or heavy) may not be as comfortable in the
tight spaces that are found in many transit systems.
Ruth
From: h+t--friends-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of adannenberg2(a)gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 7:43 AM
To: TRB Health and Transportation <h+t--friends(a)chrispy.net>
Subject: Re: [H+T--Friends] H+T--Friends Digest, Vol 68, Issue 2
On Dec 7, 2016, at 6:21 AM, Mindell, Jenny
<j.mindell@ucl.ac.uk<mailto:j.mindell@ucl.ac.uk>> wrote:
Apart from my response yesterday, here are responses to Andy.
The title is deliberate and relates to the points I made yesterday.
The health effects are, as Andy says, predominantly due to physical activity and also
depend on the mode these transit journeys replace -or trips not made. One study isn't
generalisable but it is a good reminder to examine assumptions, such as Public
transportation always increasing PA levels (not that anyone on this list believes in never
or always, of course).
However, the average and range of the lengths of the journeys made, and the other options
available, probably vary widely not only between countries but also within countries.
London has far more buses and metro lines than anywhere else in the UK.
I am delighted that this paper is resulting in such widespread discussion!
We haven't published any Letters to the Editor yet, because we haven't received
any. Feel free to submit one but perhaps take into account my comments?
Regards
Jenny
Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
(mbrenman001@comcast.net<mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net>)
2. Re: Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short' (Sheryl Gross-Glaser)
3. Re: Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short' (Andrew Dannenberg)
4. Re: Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short' (ivanovb)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 15:23:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: mbrenman001@comcast.net<mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
To: "" <h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>,
"" <thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>>
Message-ID:
<714127607.69767909.1480605832200.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net<mailto:714127607.69767909.1480605832200.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>>
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 10:43:29 -0500
From: Sheryl Gross-Glaser
<grossglaser@gmail.com<mailto:grossglaser@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
To: TRB Health and Transportation
<h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>
Message-ID:
<CAPkg-15cpiXW2xMgh5-5FxX_uJFBiHv-E7e3CBGThSU4SrKK5g@mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAPkg-15cpiXW2xMgh5-5FxX_uJFBiHv-E7e3CBGThSU4SrKK5g@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Maybe we can match height of riders with need for petite clothing - a
business opportunity. My petite daughters would appreciate that.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:23 AM,
<mbrenman001@comcast.net<mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net>> wrote:
What is "the power of large sample"? And of
course correlation is not
causality. One can imagine that in the us, transit riders are shorter than
car driver s, because of ethnic difference s in users. And there have been
various studies showing a correlation between height and higher pay, partly
due to gender disparities.
Marc brenman
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
-----Original Message-----
From: thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
To: h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>
Cc:
Sent: 2016-12-01 6:48:32 AM
Subject: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
this may have some value for a journal club - I see flaws at various
levels. How it may contribute to our understanding of any possible
relationship between public transport and health escapes me.
Thomas G?tschi, PhD
************************************************************
*************************
Regelm?ssig in Z?rich unterwegs?
Hier f?r PASTA registrieren:
https://survey.pastaproject.eu/zurich
************************************************************
*************************
_____________________________________________________________
Universit?t Z?rich
Bewegung und Gesundheit / Physical Activity and Health
Institut f?r Epidemiologie, Biostatistik und Pr?vention
(eh. Institut f?r Sozial- und Pr?ventivmedizin)
Seilergraben 49
CH-8001 Z?rich
Schweiz
Tel: +41 44 634 50 68 <+41%2044%20634%2050%2068>
Email: thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
www.ebpi.uzh.ch<http://www.ebpi.uzh.ch>
_____________________________________________________________
[image: Inactive hide details for Ann Hartell ---12/01/2016 12:14:34
PM---I'm not sure how many on this list follow David Levinson's bl]Ann
Hartell ---12/01/2016 12:14:34 PM---I'm not sure how many on this list
follow David Levinson's blog The Transportist (over here: https:
Von: Ann Hartell <ahartell@gmail.com<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>>
An: TRB Health and Transportation
<h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>
Datum: 12/01/2016 12:14 PM
Betreff: [H+T--Friends] 'Transit Makes You Short'
Gesendet von:
h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net>
------------------------------
I'm not sure how many on this list follow David Levinson's blog The
Transportist (over here: *https://transportist.org/*
<https://transportist.org/> ), but he recently published a post about a
working paper he co-authored with Alireza Emragun titled "Transit Makes
you Short": On Health Impact Assessment of Transportation and the Built
Environment.
The blog post is here:
*https://transportist.org/2016/11/28/u-study-says-transit-does-not-have-impact-on-public-health/*
<https://transportist.org/2016/11/28/u-study-says-transit-does-not-have-impact-on-public-health/>
The full paper is here:
*http://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/179812*
<http://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/179812>
Abstract:
The current research provides a test framework to understand whether and
to what extent increasing public transit use and accessibility by transit
affect health. To this end, the effect of transit mode share and
accessibility by transit on general health, body mass index, and height are
investigated, while controlling for socioeconomic, demographic, and
physical activity factors. The coefficient-p-value-sample-size chart is
created and effect size analysis are conducted to explore whether the
transit use is practically significant. Building on the results of the
analysis, we found that the transit mode share and accessibility by transit
are not practically significant, and the power of large-sample
misrepresents the effect of transit on public health. The results, also,
highlight the importance of data and variable selection by portraying a
significant correlation between transit use and height in a multivariate
regression analysis. What becomes clear from this study is that in spite of
the mushrooming interdisciplinary studies in the nexus of transportation
and health arena, researchers often propose short- and long-term policies
blindly, while failing to report the inherent explanatory power of
variables. We show that there is a thin line between false positive and
true negative results. From the weakness of p-values perspective, further,
we strove to alert both researchers and practitioners to the dangerous
pitfall deriving from the power of large- samples. Building the results on
just significance and sign of the parameter of interest is worthless,
unless the magnitude of effect size is carefully quantified post analysis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ann Hartell
Doctoral Candidate
Institute for Multi-Level Governance and Development
Wirtschaftsuniversit?t Wien/Vienna University of Economics and Business
*https://www.wu.ac.at/en/mlgd/* <http://www.wu.ac.at/mlgd/en/>
Personal: *annhartell.com<http://annhartell.com>* <http://annhartell.com/>
Email: *ahartell@gmail.com<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>*
<ahartell@gmail.com<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>>_____
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:49:20 -0800
From: "Andrew Dannenberg"
<adannenberg2@gmail.com<mailto:adannenberg2@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
To: "'TRB Health and Transportation'"
<h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>,
<thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>>
Message-ID:
<01cc01d24cb3$a6236480$f26a2d80$@gmail.com<mailto:01cc01d24cb3$a6236480$f26a2d80$@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Unclear why this paper is receiving so much attention when it has numerous weaknesses such
as:
? The title "Transit makes you short" is misleading, because it
suggests causation between transit and height, yet one of the critical messages (somewhat
buried in the paper) is that association and causation are not the same.
? The authors correctly cite a number of studies that found an association
between transit and health. Then they describe an opposing viewpoint, for which there is
little evidence, suggesting that transit could be unfavorable toward health. They cite one
study from London in which young adults given free bus passes substituted transit use for
walking and biking. This study is not generalizable because it examines free bus passes
rather than usual paid transit use found in most cities, and it studies only one age
group.
? Another reason to think that transit is unlikely to substitute for walking
and biking is that most walking trips are less than half a mile and bike trips are
commonly less than 2 miles. Transit trips are usually at least several miles, so one
would expect transit to rarely substitute for walking and biking. Transit is unlikely to
be a substitute for short distance walking and biking because transit involves a waiting
time; often for a short trip it becomes faster to walk or bike then to wait for the
transit. Also for short trips it is probably infrequent the transit goes from exactly the
origin and destination that are needed.
? The strongest claim for an association between health and transit relates to
transit and physical activity, because most transit trips begin and/or end with walking.
Whether transit can be shown to have an effect on overall health or on body mass index is
less important, because general health status and body mass index are due to many
factors, not just physical activity. A documented increase in physical activity from
transit is a sufficient public health reason to encourage transit use.
From: h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net>
[mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net] On Behalf Of
mbrenman001@comcast.net<mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 7:24 AM
To: h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>;
thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
Subject: Re: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
What is "the power of large sample"? And of course correlation is not causality.
One can imagine that in the us, transit riders are shorter than car driver s, because of
ethnic difference s in users. And there have been various studies showing a correlation
between height and higher pay, partly due to gender disparities.
Marc brenman
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
-----Original Message-----
From: thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
To: h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>
Cc:
Sent: 2016-12-01 6:48:32 AM
Subject: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
this may have some value for a journal club - I see flaws at various levels. How it may
contribute to our understanding of any possible relationship between public transport and
health escapes me.
Thomas G?tschi, PhD
*************************************************************************************
Regelm?ssig in Z?rich unterwegs?
Hier f?r PASTA registrieren:
https://survey.pastaproject.eu/zurich
*************************************************************************************
_____________________________________________________________
Universit?t Z?rich
Bewegung und Gesundheit / Physical Activity and Health
Institut f?r Epidemiologie, Biostatistik und Pr?vention
(eh. Institut f?r Sozial- und Pr?ventivmedizin)
Seilergraben 49
CH-8001 Z?rich
Schweiz
Tel: +41 44 634 50 68
Email: thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
www.ebpi.uzh.ch<http://www.ebpi.uzh.ch>
_____________________________________________________________
Inactive hide details for Ann Hartell ---12/01/2016 12:14:34 PM---I'm not sure how
many on this list follow David Levinson's blAnn Hartell ---12/01/2016 12:14:34
PM---I'm not sure how many on this list follow David Levinson's blog The
Transportist (over here: https:
Von: Ann Hartell <ahartell@gmail.com<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>>
An: TRB Health and Transportation
<h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>
Datum: 12/01/2016 12:14 PM
Betreff: [H+T--Friends] 'Transit Makes You Short'
Gesendet von:
h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net>
_____
I'm not sure how many on this list follow David Levinson's blog The Transportist
(over here:
https://transportist.org/ ), but he recently published a post about a working
paper he co-authored with Alireza Emragun titled "Transit Makes you Short": On
Health Impact Assessment of Transportation and the Built Environment.
The blog post is here:
https://transportist.org/2016/11/28/u-study-says-transit-does-not-have-impa…
The full paper is here:
http://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/179812
Abstract:
The current research provides a test framework to understand whether and to what extent
increasing public transit use and accessibility by transit affect health. To this end, the
effect of transit mode share and accessibility by transit on general health, body mass
index, and height are investigated, while controlling for socioeconomic, demographic, and
physical activity factors. The coefficient-p-value-sample-size chart is created and effect
size analysis are conducted to explore whether the transit use is practically significant.
Building on the results of the analysis, we found that the transit mode share and
accessibility by transit are not practically significant, and the power of large-sample
misrepresents the effect of transit on public health. The results, also, highlight the
importance of data and variable selection by portraying a significant correlation between
transit use and height in a multivariate regression analysis. What becomes clear from this
study is that!
in spite of the mushrooming interdisciplinary studies in the nexus of transportation and
health arena, researchers often propose short- and long-term policies blindly, while
failing to report the inherent explanatory power of variables. We show that there is a
thin line between false positive and true negative results. From the weakness of p-values
perspective, further, we strove to alert both researchers and practitioners to the
dangerous pitfall deriving from the power of large- samples. Building the results on just
significance and sign of the parameter of interest is worthless, unless the magnitude of
effect size is carefully quantified post analysis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ann Hartell
Doctoral Candidate
Institute for Multi-Level Governance and Development
Wirtschaftsuniversit?t Wien/Vienna University of Economics and Business
https://www.wu.ac.at/en/mlgd/ <http://www.wu.ac.at/mlgd/en/>
Personal: annhartell.com<http://annhartell.com> <http://annhartell.com/>
Email: <mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>
ahartell@gmail.com_______________________________________________<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com_______________________________________________>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:14:19 +0000
From: ivanovb <ivanovb@uw.edu<mailto:ivanovb@uw.edu>>
Subject: Re: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
To: TRB Health and Transportation
<h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>
Message-ID:
<85281D79-E788-46BE-A75A-D43F9A1DD47E@uw.edu<mailto:85281D79-E788-46BE-A75A-D43F9A1DD47E@uw.edu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Why is shorter bad?
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 2, 2016, at 7:34 AM,
"mbrenman001@comcast.net<mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net><mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net>"
<mbrenman001@comcast.net<mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net><mailto:mbrenman001@comcast.net>>
wrote:
What is "the power of large sample"? And of course correlation is not causality.
One can imagine that in the us, transit riders are shorter than car driver s, because of
ethnic difference s in users. And there have been various studies showing a correlation
between height and higher pay, partly due to gender disparities.
Marc brenman
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
-----Original Message-----
From:
thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch><mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
To:
h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net><mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>
Cc:
Sent: 2016-12-01 6:48:32 AM
Subject: [H+T--Friends] Antwort: 'Transit Makes You Short'
this may have some value for a journal club - I see flaws at various levels. How it may
contribute to our understanding of any possible relationship between public transport and
health escapes me.
Thomas G?tschi, PhD
*************************************************************************************
Regelm?ssig in Z?rich unterwegs?
Hier f?r PASTA registrieren:
https://survey.pastaproject.eu/zurich
*************************************************************************************
_____________________________________________________________
Universit?t Z?rich
Bewegung und Gesundheit / Physical Activity and Health
Institut f?r Epidemiologie, Biostatistik und Pr?vention
(eh. Institut f?r Sozial- und Pr?ventivmedizin)
Seilergraben 49
CH-8001 Z?rich
Schweiz
Tel: +41 44 634 50 68
Email:
thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch<mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch><mailto:thomas.goetschi@uzh.ch>
www.ebpi.uzh.ch<http://www.ebpi.uzh.ch><http://www.ebpi.uzh.ch>
_____________________________________________________________
[Inactive hide details for Ann Hartell ---12/01/2016 12:14:34 PM---I'm not sure how
many on this list follow David Levinson's bl]Ann Hartell ---12/01/2016 12:14:34
PM---I'm not sure how many on this list follow David Levinson's blog The
Transportist (over here: https:
Von: Ann Hartell
<ahartell@gmail.com<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com><mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>>
An: TRB Health and Transportation
<h+t--friends@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net><mailto:h+t--friends@chrispy.net>>
Datum: 12/01/2016 12:14 PM
Betreff: [H+T--Friends] 'Transit Makes You Short'
Gesendet von:
h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net<mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net><mailto:h+t--friends-bounces@chrispy.net>
________________________________
I'm not sure how many on this list follow David Levinson's blog The Transportist
(over here:
https://transportist.org/ ), but he recently published a post about a working
paper he co-authored with Alireza Emragun titled "Transit Makes you Short": On
Health Impact Assessment of Transportation and the Built Environment.
The blog post is here:
https://transportist.org/2016/11/28/u-study-says-transit-does-not-have-impa…
The full paper is here:
http://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/179812
Abstract:
The current research provides a test framework to understand whether and to what extent
increasing public transit use and accessibility by transit affect health. To this end, the
effect of transit mode share and accessibility by transit on general health, body mass
index, and height are investigated, while controlling for socioeconomic, demographic, and
physical activity factors. The coefficient-p-value-sample-size chart is created and effect
size analysis are conducted to explore whether the transit use is practically significant.
Building on the results of the analysis, we found that the transit mode share and
accessibility by transit are not practically significant, and the power of large-sample
misrepresents the effect of transit on public health. The results, also, highlight the
importance of data and variable selection by portraying a significant correlation between
transit use and height in a multivariate regression analysis. What becomes clear from this
study is that!
in spite of the mushrooming interdisciplinary studies in the nexus of transportation and
health arena, researchers often propose short- and long-term policies blindly, while
failing to report the inherent explanatory power of variables. We show that there is a
thin line between false positive and true negative results. From the weakness of p-values
perspective, further, we strove to alert both researchers and practitioners to the
dangerous pitfall deriving from the power of large- samples. Building the results on just
significance and sign of the parameter of interest is worthless, unless the magnitude of
effect size is carefully quantified post analysis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ann Hartell
Doctoral Candidate
Institute for Multi-Level Governance and Development
Wirtschaftsuniversit?t Wien/Vienna University of Economics and Business
https://www.wu.ac.at/en/mlgd/<http://www.wu.ac.at/mlgd/en/<https://ww…
Personal:
annhartell.com<http://annhartell.com><http://annhartell.com/>
Email:
ahartell@gmail.com<mailto:ahartell@gmail.com><mailto:ahartell@gmail.com>_______________________________________________
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